Some Further Thoughts on Polyamory
Aug. 12th, 2006 05:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bookofmirrorsThe following is a cross-post. I posted my angst-y polyamory woes to my Core Energetics group, and got a very strong negative response from one of my class members, who thinks that 
BlckwngdOrcl is taking advantage of me, and that my reaction to his dating is normal. Which, really, I suppose, it is. I'm editing my post a bit to make it more LJ-friendly, and I'm not posting what he wrote to prompt it, because that particular group is a private one, and everything said there is "safe" from anyone's eyes but our own. But this is my writing, and I want to share it.
BlckwngdOrcl and I had a long talk about this situation, and my classmate's response (which I told him briefly, without giving any of my classmate's secrets away) when I got home, which mostly consisted of him asking me questions, and hearing my answers - and also of me hearing my own answers, which is also useful, 'cause he has a way a leading me to see things about myself which I might not otherwise.
A lot has happened since then, and I wish he were at home now to remind me of some of the conversation, lest I forget something important or useful. But I remember (I hope) what I consider to be the most important parts of it.
One of the first things he asked me was what polyamory means to me.
(As an aside... I use the word "polyamory" incorrectly, as
Isarma pointed out in an earlier comment, 'cause it rolls off the tongue more nicely than "open relationship", which is more truly what I practice; I think BlckwngdOrcl is more truly polyamorous. But, for the purposes of this, I'll just use my usual term.)
I told him that it meant having choices. To be free to make those choices. There was some snippet of conversation after this, which I don't remember clearly, 'cause I think it was a lot of clarification stuff, 'cause I don't think I gave him the answer he was expecting. Anyway, somehow we got on the subject of the relationship itself being a choice. He thought that, since he'd already made his choice to be in a relationship with me, that it was a done deal. He didn't intend to change his mind, so he was having trouble wrapping his head around my reaction. I told him that, for me, even a "decided" relationship like ours was all about choices. That every moment of it was another choice - to be with him, or not. I said that, to me, that was the very heart of it all. If we didn't have that choice 100% of the time, then any relationship was nothing more than a trap. I choose every moment to be with him, and that choice is important to me, and makes the relationship that much more valuable in my eyes. He said that he understood that. (Personally, I think he's taking some time to wrap his mind around that, too, 'cause I don't think he's ever thought of relationships, or much else, in those terms. But he at least "got" what I said.)
There was more conversation, which I don't remember clearly, but I had something I wanted to ask him, and it was important to me to ask it. Keep in mind, I didn't ask it without first knowing what my own answer would be, if he were to ask me the same thing. (This is very important later.)
I asked him, if, if I were to ask him to no longer be polyamorous, if he would/could do that.
He (bless his heart) reminded me of what I'd said earlier, about speaking from my fear, and not wanting him to appease it, and I had to clarify that thread of conversation a bit - y'know, hypothetically, IF you were clear that this wasn't coming from my fear, and IF I were serious, blahblahblah. I had already told him I didn't want an off-the-cuff answer, that I wanted him to really think about it, and be honest.
And he did. He sat in contemplation for a few minutes, and as he was sitting there thinking, I got this clear voice in my head, saying, "This is STUPID."
Now, it seems to me that the Higher Self doesn't use words like "stupid", but this seemed very Higher Self to me. It was that same tone I'd use to give someone a reality check if they were doing something ...um... stupid. Except I tend not to use that word, usually.
Anyway, it was right about then that he chose to answer. He said that he would/could do it, but he'd probably resent me for the rest of his life.
I told him that, if he had asked the same thing of me, I'd have THE EXACT SAME REACTION. I said that, if we had, for whatever reason, not been dating or seeing anyone for 50 years, and been happy with that, and he suddenly asked me to stop being polyamorous... that even though we would have been monogamous in practice all that time, I'd resent him taking away that choice.
Then, I went on to talk about the "this is stupid" voice in my head. As he was sitting there thinking about his answer, I was thinking about why I'd asked the question. About why it mattered to me. And yes, there is a part of me, a scared little girl part, that wanted him to immediately stand up and say "of course I'd give it up for you, darling!". But this is the part that's steeped in fear. This is the part that wants to control, to make myself feel safe.
When I really thought about it, the real reason I wanted to ask that question was for my classmate(s), for anyone who's ever said that this lifestyle is crazy, is wrong, is whatever. Who resentsBlckwngdOrcl for it, who despises the man I love because of what we've chosen as our lifestyle. I wanted to be able to ask the question, get the "of course" answer, and throw it back in your/their faces. To be able to say, "See? THAT'S how much he loves me, that he'd be willing to give that part of himself up for me!"
And, to me, that IS just STUPID.
Because I don't WANT him to give up that part of himself. I wouldn't want to give it up for him. One of the many things I love about our relationship is that we CAN be truly ourselves in it. And myself is someone that enjoys having relationships of all types with people. Someone who wants CHOICES, not dictations.
Something I thought of: If someone were to say they were in a relationship where their mate said that they didn't really want them visiting their friends anymore - especially those friends of their preferred romantic interests. They'd rather not they meet them for coffee, go out to the movies, have them over for dinner. Anyone would say this is, if not downright emotionally abusive, certainly a red flag for someone who is, or might be, abusive in nature. So why, then, do we draw the line at sex? Why is it abusive for someone to restrict coffee dates, but not sex. Why is it OK to tell someone that, oh sure, you can have coffee with someone, just don't fuck them, or God forbid, develop feelings for them? I don't GET that. It doesn't make SENSE to me. There's no argument I can think of for this type of behavior that isn't based in fear, or simply a case of blindly following society's dictates.
And my experience with my own dating outside my marriage has shown that I feel even MORE in love with my husband. Certainly, this experience of him dating, even in its infancy, has drawn us even closer, which is something I never really feel is possible until it happens.
And, while it may seem that this all serves to explain awayBlckwngdOrcl's behavior, it's my own that is the most important to me. I want all this for myself, too. The conversation started out, at least in my head, as being about BlckwngdOrcl, and somewhere along the line, I discovered so much about myself. How important the lifestyle I've chosen is TO ME.
For the record, by the way, it was neverBlckwngdOrcl who first brought up the idea of having an open relationship - it was me, and within the first week of us dating. I was the one who "took advantage" of it first, and the strongest advocate of it. It's only in recent events that BlckwngdOrcl has even entertained this, and I've found it to be a great growth experience for him. Now it's being a great growth experience for me.
So, probably not the response that my classmate would expect or want, but his response to my original post paved the way for a conversation that made it clear to me that polyamory/open relationship... whatever you wanna call it, in its various permutations... is EXACTLY the way I wanna live my life. It's important to me. And it doesn't feel based in fear. It feels calm, content. And not in that numb calmness that is Mask. This feels like my Truth. And it's important enough for me to fight for, even when I'm fighting my own fears, and my own Lower Self.
BlckwngdOrcl is taking advantage of me, and that my reaction to his dating is normal. Which, really, I suppose, it is. I'm editing my post a bit to make it more LJ-friendly, and I'm not posting what he wrote to prompt it, because that particular group is a private one, and everything said there is "safe" from anyone's eyes but our own. But this is my writing, and I want to share it.BlckwngdOrcl and I had a long talk about this situation, and my classmate's response (which I told him briefly, without giving any of my classmate's secrets away) when I got home, which mostly consisted of him asking me questions, and hearing my answers - and also of me hearing my own answers, which is also useful, 'cause he has a way a leading me to see things about myself which I might not otherwise.A lot has happened since then, and I wish he were at home now to remind me of some of the conversation, lest I forget something important or useful. But I remember (I hope) what I consider to be the most important parts of it.
One of the first things he asked me was what polyamory means to me.
(As an aside... I use the word "polyamory" incorrectly, as
Isarma pointed out in an earlier comment, 'cause it rolls off the tongue more nicely than "open relationship", which is more truly what I practice; I think BlckwngdOrcl is more truly polyamorous. But, for the purposes of this, I'll just use my usual term.)I told him that it meant having choices. To be free to make those choices. There was some snippet of conversation after this, which I don't remember clearly, 'cause I think it was a lot of clarification stuff, 'cause I don't think I gave him the answer he was expecting. Anyway, somehow we got on the subject of the relationship itself being a choice. He thought that, since he'd already made his choice to be in a relationship with me, that it was a done deal. He didn't intend to change his mind, so he was having trouble wrapping his head around my reaction. I told him that, for me, even a "decided" relationship like ours was all about choices. That every moment of it was another choice - to be with him, or not. I said that, to me, that was the very heart of it all. If we didn't have that choice 100% of the time, then any relationship was nothing more than a trap. I choose every moment to be with him, and that choice is important to me, and makes the relationship that much more valuable in my eyes. He said that he understood that. (Personally, I think he's taking some time to wrap his mind around that, too, 'cause I don't think he's ever thought of relationships, or much else, in those terms. But he at least "got" what I said.)
There was more conversation, which I don't remember clearly, but I had something I wanted to ask him, and it was important to me to ask it. Keep in mind, I didn't ask it without first knowing what my own answer would be, if he were to ask me the same thing. (This is very important later.)
I asked him, if, if I were to ask him to no longer be polyamorous, if he would/could do that.
He (bless his heart) reminded me of what I'd said earlier, about speaking from my fear, and not wanting him to appease it, and I had to clarify that thread of conversation a bit - y'know, hypothetically, IF you were clear that this wasn't coming from my fear, and IF I were serious, blahblahblah. I had already told him I didn't want an off-the-cuff answer, that I wanted him to really think about it, and be honest.
And he did. He sat in contemplation for a few minutes, and as he was sitting there thinking, I got this clear voice in my head, saying, "This is STUPID."
Now, it seems to me that the Higher Self doesn't use words like "stupid", but this seemed very Higher Self to me. It was that same tone I'd use to give someone a reality check if they were doing something ...um... stupid. Except I tend not to use that word, usually.
Anyway, it was right about then that he chose to answer. He said that he would/could do it, but he'd probably resent me for the rest of his life.
I told him that, if he had asked the same thing of me, I'd have THE EXACT SAME REACTION. I said that, if we had, for whatever reason, not been dating or seeing anyone for 50 years, and been happy with that, and he suddenly asked me to stop being polyamorous... that even though we would have been monogamous in practice all that time, I'd resent him taking away that choice.
Then, I went on to talk about the "this is stupid" voice in my head. As he was sitting there thinking about his answer, I was thinking about why I'd asked the question. About why it mattered to me. And yes, there is a part of me, a scared little girl part, that wanted him to immediately stand up and say "of course I'd give it up for you, darling!". But this is the part that's steeped in fear. This is the part that wants to control, to make myself feel safe.
When I really thought about it, the real reason I wanted to ask that question was for my classmate(s), for anyone who's ever said that this lifestyle is crazy, is wrong, is whatever. Who resents
BlckwngdOrcl for it, who despises the man I love because of what we've chosen as our lifestyle. I wanted to be able to ask the question, get the "of course" answer, and throw it back in your/their faces. To be able to say, "See? THAT'S how much he loves me, that he'd be willing to give that part of himself up for me!"And, to me, that IS just STUPID.
Because I don't WANT him to give up that part of himself. I wouldn't want to give it up for him. One of the many things I love about our relationship is that we CAN be truly ourselves in it. And myself is someone that enjoys having relationships of all types with people. Someone who wants CHOICES, not dictations.
Something I thought of: If someone were to say they were in a relationship where their mate said that they didn't really want them visiting their friends anymore - especially those friends of their preferred romantic interests. They'd rather not they meet them for coffee, go out to the movies, have them over for dinner. Anyone would say this is, if not downright emotionally abusive, certainly a red flag for someone who is, or might be, abusive in nature. So why, then, do we draw the line at sex? Why is it abusive for someone to restrict coffee dates, but not sex. Why is it OK to tell someone that, oh sure, you can have coffee with someone, just don't fuck them, or God forbid, develop feelings for them? I don't GET that. It doesn't make SENSE to me. There's no argument I can think of for this type of behavior that isn't based in fear, or simply a case of blindly following society's dictates.
And my experience with my own dating outside my marriage has shown that I feel even MORE in love with my husband. Certainly, this experience of him dating, even in its infancy, has drawn us even closer, which is something I never really feel is possible until it happens.
And, while it may seem that this all serves to explain away
BlckwngdOrcl's behavior, it's my own that is the most important to me. I want all this for myself, too. The conversation started out, at least in my head, as being about BlckwngdOrcl, and somewhere along the line, I discovered so much about myself. How important the lifestyle I've chosen is TO ME. For the record, by the way, it was never
BlckwngdOrcl who first brought up the idea of having an open relationship - it was me, and within the first week of us dating. I was the one who "took advantage" of it first, and the strongest advocate of it. It's only in recent events that BlckwngdOrcl has even entertained this, and I've found it to be a great growth experience for him. Now it's being a great growth experience for me.So, probably not the response that my classmate would expect or want, but his response to my original post paved the way for a conversation that made it clear to me that polyamory/open relationship... whatever you wanna call it, in its various permutations... is EXACTLY the way I wanna live my life. It's important to me. And it doesn't feel based in fear. It feels calm, content. And not in that numb calmness that is Mask. This feels like my Truth. And it's important enough for me to fight for, even when I'm fighting my own fears, and my own Lower Self.
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A lot to chew on...
Date: 2006-08-13 10:35 am (UTC)Since upon first coming out into the Pagan community in Georgia (um, a few yeras ago ;0 ) I have found myself around many advocates for your lifestyle, and have even had pointed remarks made to me about my lack of personal development if I was not involved with the lifestyle myself. Being the ever curious creature that I am I decided to broaden my horizons years ago and find out if there was in fact something that I was missing. I involved myself in relationships with partners where I was on both sides of the fence. I did my own introspective work and discovered for myself what did and did not work for me. For whatever reason, on a soul deep level I am not polyamorous. I have found my own personal truth to be that although I enjoy being polysexual when my heart is not attached to anyone in particular, that when I truly give all of myself to someone like I have with my husband, I am just not interested in participating in anything with anyone else. I'm certainly not implying that this is what is right for everyone, because everyone is different, this is just what I have found to be right for me.
Now to address the blanket statement:
"If someone were to say they were in a relationship where their mate said that they didn't really want them visiting their friends anymore - especially those friends of their preferred romantic interests. They'd rather not they meet them for coffee, go out to the movies, have them over for dinner. Anyone would say this is, if not downright emotionally abusive, certainly a red flag for someone who is, or might be, abusive in nature."
I am one of those individuals who finds it disrespectful if the person that I have given myself to (heart, soul, mind, and body) spends quality alone time with an individual of their preferred sexual gender. I have spend quite some time adddressing this with my therapist because my knee jerk reaction was that I was being controlling out of a place of fear. After many hours in therapy, and much personal journaling I find that it is my motives that matter. My motivation for this has nothing to do with my fear, rather it has to do with what I believe to be right for me on a soul deep level. Does it mean I prohibit them from doing so? Hell no! I would never want to be in that type of relationship. However, it does mean that upon getting clear with my feelings and personal boundaries it becomes my responsibility in the relationship to express how I feel to my loved one. Whether my loved one chooses to honor that or not is their choice, not one I make for them. My red flag would be if I was trying to control them, but also if I was not expressing something that was so important to me. It just woouldn't be honoring, loving, and respecting to myself.
Wow, I hope that I have made clear in this post one thing...often I have found that people involved with the lifestyle rule those that are not in a class that I do not belong in, and tend to make blanket statement that to me are unfounded. I hope that I have made myself clear that I do not stand in judgement of you, but rather honor your choices, and I hope that someday those in the lifestyle can see past their own assumptions and prejudices regarding those who conciously choose (like myself) to not be a member.
Re: A lot to chew on...
Date: 2006-08-13 01:38 pm (UTC)I agree that, if one has examined one's motives fully, and determined that one's actions do not come from a place of fear, that this should not be considered abusive behavior. Hopefully, (and I think you have) a person would find a partner who would share this set of beliefs, and who is also willing to examine them fully. Sadly, prior to your comment, I haven't known (or known I've known) anyone for whom such actions weren't based in fear. But, I can certainly agree, based on my own experiences, that this is something that could easily exist.
I have found myself that there are certain aspects of the poly lifestyle that are not for me (having a live-in lover, for instance). On the surface, I feel somewhat un-enlightened because of this, but I, too, have examined my motives, and I'm comfortable with my decision and don't feel it's based in fear, so I understand what you're saying.
*hugs* on coming to know yourself so well, and acting on it!