And One Thing Led to Another...
Apr. 24th, 2010 06:42 pmI had a dream last night (er... well, night for me) wherein I was hanging out with a dear friend who I happen to be attracted to. We were having a good time, as usual, and it was getting to the point where we were either going to take our leave of each other amicably, or I was going to see if he wanted to go with me on some errands I was considering going on. The real-life background of our friendship was also true in the dream... that is, that he's been aware of my attraction for years, it's not something he's interested in pursuing, and that it's become somewhat of a lame joke between us which hasn't affected (as far as I can tell) the friendship; although my continued attraction to him is always a bit of an undercurrent, at least for me. Every once in a while, in real life, I'll bring it up briefly, the status quo will be reaffirmed, and we'll go on.
So, this also happened in the dream. I don't even remember how the sexual innuendo came up, but at some point in the dream, there was a situation where there was a comment that, twisted a bit or misconstrued could have been seen as sexual, and I took it there, as a joke. Later in the day, when I was bringing up my proposed errands and whether or not he wanted to go with me (I think he was leaning towards yes), I asked if he wanted to shower with me before we left. It was actually a casual request more than anything, but of course the undercurrent was still there. He demurred, at least partially because of that undercurrent. Which started us to talking about how I react sexually to him. I asked if I wasn't getting better, since in the past, our interactions almost always included a clumsy proposition on my part, which he always graciously declined. I stopped doing it over time, only bringing it up once in a great while, often in the form of a teasing flirt based on the shared "joke" of my attraction to him. He did say that yes, it had certainly gotten better over the years, but that earlier that day, when I'd made the sexual joke, that it had been a bit of an adolescent gesture on my part - think the only slightly more sophisticated version of Beavis and Butthead (and later Family Guy)... "Heh heh heh... you said 'lay'" or what have you. My initial reaction, while calm, was based on defensiveness. I started to say something to the effect of, in situations like that, pretty much everyone went there in their head when it comes to certain phrases (thanks to Sluggy, for instance, I can't hear the words "yippie skippy" without hearing "the evil" in my head afterwards), and I just spoke out loud what anyone would think. But even as I was saying that, I realized it was a defensive answer, and started to look at the issue more closely.
And somewhere in the midst of this particular conversation, I started to half-wake, so my waking and sleeping mind were both forming responses to this.
And I started to think that I don't think I've ever been in a long-term relationship that hasn't been somewhat adolescent in its approach to sex. My first long-term relationship, perhaps, doesn't count, since we both were, in fact, adolescents at the time, with everything that went with that. And, in retrospect, in some ways, it feels *less* adolescent than other sexual relationships (albeit that "sex" was limited to non-penetrative acts, since that was back when my virginity meant something to me).
My first husband was obsessed with sex in, perhaps, the way society in general is obsessed with sex, but he definitely took every innuendo to the nth degree, found sex around every corner, so to speak. And, to be fair, I was right there with him. It was a part of our typical interactions, our banter, to sexualize everything. His sex drive was higher even than mine, and in retrospect (and, looking back, I think I thought this even at the time) it seemed like he approached at least the *idea* of sex with a Beavis and Butthead mentality a lot of the time. Actual sexual acts were far from adolescent, but the attitude during the rest of the time was moreso.
My next long-term relationship was shrouded in secrecy, in that my "partner" didn't want the relationship publicly known (no, I wasn't the "other woman"... I was the only one, and we lived together, ostensibly as roommates, at the time). Adolescent isn't perhaps the best way to describe the relationship, but it's clear that we rarely approached our sexual relationship with the integrity of adults.
My current long-term relationship has a lot of adolescent elements, and they're almost all on my part. Many of my approaches to sex in this situation are almost juvenile. I can see where it stems from... after the initial fuck-like-bunnies stage, fears kicked in on his part (some of which I had an insight about a few days ago, but that's not part of today's discussion) and he closed his sexuality from me. It's been a constant struggle for both of us, and I'm ashamed to say that my reaction has been more like Peg Bundy's. Don't get me wrong, this is something we've both worked on, pretty hard, and with a lot of very adult discussions. We've both had some pretty good insights about the situation over the years. But, the fact is, in the face of what I perceive as rejection, I react in a less-than-adult manner. I hypersexualize situations, hoping to ...er... get a rise out of him. It doesn't work, of course, but my own fears make it difficult for me to approach the matter like a grown-up. He responds much better to my sexual advances that are articulate... but requesting in a clear manner leaves me vulnerable in a way I don't like, since the answer is still often "no". When I approach it from the Beavis and Butthead standpoint, I can pass it off as a joke, no harm, no foul - even though we both know I'm fooling no one.
It's a stupid way to go about it, and it's one we've talked about, and one I've been working on. The dream, however, brought it back to the forefront, and makes me think that there's a longer way to go to fix this than I've been admitting.
The other thing I'm considering is how I approach lovers. I don't *think* I approach lovers in the same way. I was running over this in my head as I was lying in bed trying to decide whether to try to go back to sleep or not, and asked myself what I *did* consider to be adult approaches to sexuality. Pretty much, it involves honesty and integrity, and expressing one's needs. And I'm pretty sure I approach lovers from this standpoint. But, in the light of this dream, I now kinda wonder if I also have some adolescent approaches to my sex life in general. I wonder if, and/or how, this comes across in the sexual act itself. I remember my first husband, after our divorce, said that he'd never been with anyone who abandoned themselves to sex the way I did. But I don't feel like I do that anymore. Certainly, his sexual experiences pale in comparison to those of the lovers I've had since then, so his opinion would be biased from that standpoint. But I do feel like I hold back now in ways I haven't in the past. I know that this is related to fear... because I perceive that my husband can't meet my considerable sexuality on its own terms, I've trained myself (subconsciously) to parcel out sexual response in "safe" doses. Even with lovers I perceive as being able to handle it, I can feel myself holding back in the same way, and it feels like I've forgotten how not to do that. I suppose the question is, is this adolescent? Is this "normal" adult behavior in a society that's as simultaneously sex-obsessed and sex-repressed as ours? Certainly, the people I've been lucky enough to call friends are much more sexually open than the general population, but hey, we all have baggage, right?
So, dear readers, past lovers, innocent bystanders... here's the participation portion of today's LJ experience. Because, while I'll ponder this myself ad nauseum, it's a bit hard for me to get outside of my head and my own experiences. So, I'm interested in hearing how you perceive me sexually in relation to what I've said. Do I come across as mature in my sexual dealings? If you've been a lover of mine in any capacity, how did I come across (no pun intended) as far as my ability to be in the moment and whatnot? Or anything else you think applies.
***I'm going to screen comments, mostly to get candid responses that aren't affected by seeing other responses. I'll probably unscreen them in a week or so, so if you don't want your response unscreened, let me know, and I'll leave it screened.
So, this also happened in the dream. I don't even remember how the sexual innuendo came up, but at some point in the dream, there was a situation where there was a comment that, twisted a bit or misconstrued could have been seen as sexual, and I took it there, as a joke. Later in the day, when I was bringing up my proposed errands and whether or not he wanted to go with me (I think he was leaning towards yes), I asked if he wanted to shower with me before we left. It was actually a casual request more than anything, but of course the undercurrent was still there. He demurred, at least partially because of that undercurrent. Which started us to talking about how I react sexually to him. I asked if I wasn't getting better, since in the past, our interactions almost always included a clumsy proposition on my part, which he always graciously declined. I stopped doing it over time, only bringing it up once in a great while, often in the form of a teasing flirt based on the shared "joke" of my attraction to him. He did say that yes, it had certainly gotten better over the years, but that earlier that day, when I'd made the sexual joke, that it had been a bit of an adolescent gesture on my part - think the only slightly more sophisticated version of Beavis and Butthead (and later Family Guy)... "Heh heh heh... you said 'lay'" or what have you. My initial reaction, while calm, was based on defensiveness. I started to say something to the effect of, in situations like that, pretty much everyone went there in their head when it comes to certain phrases (thanks to Sluggy, for instance, I can't hear the words "yippie skippy" without hearing "the evil" in my head afterwards), and I just spoke out loud what anyone would think. But even as I was saying that, I realized it was a defensive answer, and started to look at the issue more closely.
And somewhere in the midst of this particular conversation, I started to half-wake, so my waking and sleeping mind were both forming responses to this.
And I started to think that I don't think I've ever been in a long-term relationship that hasn't been somewhat adolescent in its approach to sex. My first long-term relationship, perhaps, doesn't count, since we both were, in fact, adolescents at the time, with everything that went with that. And, in retrospect, in some ways, it feels *less* adolescent than other sexual relationships (albeit that "sex" was limited to non-penetrative acts, since that was back when my virginity meant something to me).
My first husband was obsessed with sex in, perhaps, the way society in general is obsessed with sex, but he definitely took every innuendo to the nth degree, found sex around every corner, so to speak. And, to be fair, I was right there with him. It was a part of our typical interactions, our banter, to sexualize everything. His sex drive was higher even than mine, and in retrospect (and, looking back, I think I thought this even at the time) it seemed like he approached at least the *idea* of sex with a Beavis and Butthead mentality a lot of the time. Actual sexual acts were far from adolescent, but the attitude during the rest of the time was moreso.
My next long-term relationship was shrouded in secrecy, in that my "partner" didn't want the relationship publicly known (no, I wasn't the "other woman"... I was the only one, and we lived together, ostensibly as roommates, at the time). Adolescent isn't perhaps the best way to describe the relationship, but it's clear that we rarely approached our sexual relationship with the integrity of adults.
My current long-term relationship has a lot of adolescent elements, and they're almost all on my part. Many of my approaches to sex in this situation are almost juvenile. I can see where it stems from... after the initial fuck-like-bunnies stage, fears kicked in on his part (some of which I had an insight about a few days ago, but that's not part of today's discussion) and he closed his sexuality from me. It's been a constant struggle for both of us, and I'm ashamed to say that my reaction has been more like Peg Bundy's. Don't get me wrong, this is something we've both worked on, pretty hard, and with a lot of very adult discussions. We've both had some pretty good insights about the situation over the years. But, the fact is, in the face of what I perceive as rejection, I react in a less-than-adult manner. I hypersexualize situations, hoping to ...er... get a rise out of him. It doesn't work, of course, but my own fears make it difficult for me to approach the matter like a grown-up. He responds much better to my sexual advances that are articulate... but requesting in a clear manner leaves me vulnerable in a way I don't like, since the answer is still often "no". When I approach it from the Beavis and Butthead standpoint, I can pass it off as a joke, no harm, no foul - even though we both know I'm fooling no one.
It's a stupid way to go about it, and it's one we've talked about, and one I've been working on. The dream, however, brought it back to the forefront, and makes me think that there's a longer way to go to fix this than I've been admitting.
The other thing I'm considering is how I approach lovers. I don't *think* I approach lovers in the same way. I was running over this in my head as I was lying in bed trying to decide whether to try to go back to sleep or not, and asked myself what I *did* consider to be adult approaches to sexuality. Pretty much, it involves honesty and integrity, and expressing one's needs. And I'm pretty sure I approach lovers from this standpoint. But, in the light of this dream, I now kinda wonder if I also have some adolescent approaches to my sex life in general. I wonder if, and/or how, this comes across in the sexual act itself. I remember my first husband, after our divorce, said that he'd never been with anyone who abandoned themselves to sex the way I did. But I don't feel like I do that anymore. Certainly, his sexual experiences pale in comparison to those of the lovers I've had since then, so his opinion would be biased from that standpoint. But I do feel like I hold back now in ways I haven't in the past. I know that this is related to fear... because I perceive that my husband can't meet my considerable sexuality on its own terms, I've trained myself (subconsciously) to parcel out sexual response in "safe" doses. Even with lovers I perceive as being able to handle it, I can feel myself holding back in the same way, and it feels like I've forgotten how not to do that. I suppose the question is, is this adolescent? Is this "normal" adult behavior in a society that's as simultaneously sex-obsessed and sex-repressed as ours? Certainly, the people I've been lucky enough to call friends are much more sexually open than the general population, but hey, we all have baggage, right?
So, dear readers, past lovers, innocent bystanders... here's the participation portion of today's LJ experience. Because, while I'll ponder this myself ad nauseum, it's a bit hard for me to get outside of my head and my own experiences. So, I'm interested in hearing how you perceive me sexually in relation to what I've said. Do I come across as mature in my sexual dealings? If you've been a lover of mine in any capacity, how did I come across (no pun intended) as far as my ability to be in the moment and whatnot? Or anything else you think applies.
***I'm going to screen comments, mostly to get candid responses that aren't affected by seeing other responses. I'll probably unscreen them in a week or so, so if you don't want your response unscreened, let me know, and I'll leave it screened.