Because I Can't Run From This Forever...

[bookofmirrors]

"You got some concerned fans out here." - Thus sayeth the feygirl.

I have fans? I wouldn't have thought so...

Anyway, I'm up, and I'm reluctantly willing to post this now, so I guess I'll get on to it...



OK... so, I'm not sure where to start. Partially 'cause I've waited too long, and that makes it harder to remember exactly what happened. And I do so like being accurate and thorough. So, I'll do the best I can. This is all through my filters, anyway, so "accuracy" is a great goal, at best.

Let's backtrack a little. For the most part, this is in response to blckwngdorcl's most recent post. But, it almost seems like this post has been over a year in the making, maybe longer. But let me start where it starts for me, this time around.

My most recent Core class was last month. On the first day, we all usually just kinda say where we are with our lives, what's been going on with us lately, etc.. I had lots of things to say, but when I started talking about blckwngdorcl, and about how he was still looking for a job, they all went ballistic. (Disclaimer - not "all", of course, and "ballistic" is my term, and probably not the least bit accurate - but that's how it felt at the time.) They focused on that, and their reaction was so strong, and so shattering to me that to this day, all the other things I had been planning to mention, which were significant to me, have left my head. I left feeling completely disconstructed. I was devastated, and came home and curled up with blckwngdorcl in bed, and told him about it, and cried for a very long time on his shoulder. My memory of this whole thing is very vague. I was in a different headspace at the time, and being in a deconstructed space does not lend itself well to making an LJ entry about it. Plus, even now, I find myself loathe to post what I do remember about it, because it incriminates me. I don't want to go into that despair again, don't want to feel like I've been living that much of a lie. But... I suppose I wouldn't be writing this entry if I weren't planning on going there. Hitting the "delete" key is certainly tempting, but not writing all this down is unhealthy for me, and I know this.

OK, so here's what I remember, and take it with as many grains of salt as you like, 'cause, like I said, my memory of it is disjointed, and seeped in emotion which doesn't translate well into a neat chronological accurate representation.

Anyway, I was talking about how blckwngdorcl had gone into the apprenticeship program at the Grooming School, and how they turned to out to be a bit shady, and he'd left them, and was currently looking for other options to learn pet grooming. They all agreed that the place sounded shady, and that it was a good thing he'd gotten out of it. But somewhere in there, they got upset about his not having had a job this whole time, while I worked myself sick to pay the bills (or mostly pay the bills, with lots of help). Which, yeah, is true. Intellectually, I could agree with everything they were saying, everything that a LOT of people have said over the past couple years where this has been the case. In case any of you don't know, the deal is that blckwngdorcl left his job at FedEx about the time I started working for Sona, 'cause it was actually a good financial move for us to do so, and it meant that the house stayed clean all the time, 'cause he was put in charge of cleaning it. That worked well for a while, until it became clear that my income didn't really cut it. At that time, I asked him to look for a job, so he could help out financially. At the time, we were living at Harmony, which meant dealing with CCT, or walking. He said CCT sucked, which I'd heard elsewhere, so we agreed it would be limited to somewhere he could walk to. Which, it never seemed, there were any jobs. He looked, I think, but I also think his energy wasn't in it. This pattern has continued just about to present day. Him looking, to no avail, and me working so much I get sick, and have very little joy in life. Yeah, sure, if you looked at it intellectually, he could have found a job of SOME sort, if he really wanted to, and the fact that he didn't - in the clear face of my declining health, and tearful begging on more than one occassion that he find something, anything, so that I could cut back on hours, and even my anger now and again - well, any logical person would say that he was fucking me over, taking advantage of me.

But I didn't believe that. Or, at least, I didn't want to. He was my husband. The man who loved me most in the world. The man who was appalled at my stories of how I took care of Fig financially, of how I used *my* birthday and Christmas money to buy Fig his birthday and Christmas presents, and despised him because of it. Surely, he wouldn't be doing a variation of the same thing. Not him, never him. He wasn't that bad of a person. I had learned my lesson, I hadn't picked the same kind of man twice, I was better than that. No, no, people just didn't understand us, didn't understand him. Besides, until I came along, he'd had a steady job all the time, with less than a month at a time of being unemployed, ever. So, certianly, the problem wasn't his. Oh, well, no, it wasn't mine, either. We just chose this lifestyle, of him being at home, and, oops, silly us, it didn't work for us, and, well, he just hasn't found the right job yet. It'll happen when it's the right time for it to happen, the Universe knows what it's doing, and who are we to question. Besides, if he's going through such a hard time with all this, that's OK. I'm the strong one, and if he needs me to work a little longer while he figures some stuff out, I can do that. I can work forever. No, no, I'm not THAT sick. It'll be over soon, and he'll be the partner he always promised me he would be, and then things will be perfect.

Pathetic, isn't it?

And I actually BELIEVED that shit. There were parts of me, to be sure, that didn't. Parts of me that were scared, and miserable, and knew what was going on, but I wouldn't listen. To this day, I have to fight NOT to believe it. We've had some really good talks, he and I, where we discussed all this, and he promised it would get better. And I believed him. If the stupid Grooming School hadn't been so apparently crooked, he would be well on his way to being a pet groomer now. And yes, early on, his energy was very much of someone who was trying to say the right thing to get me off his back. I knew, deep down, that this was just appeasement, but wanted so much to believe that it really meant something, that it would result in him getting a job, and life being better for both of us. Later, his energy changed, but that's only been in the past few months. Up to that point, it was all appeasement. Now, yeah, I do believe his energy has changed, to the point where he means what he says. In the meantime, though... still no job. So, we're still at square one.

Anyway, at the time of my classes, I was still firmly rooted in all the denial of the above statements. And they totally lit into me about it. They lit into him for being such a dickhead, and into me for letting it happen. In my head, even though they said over and over again that it was NOT my only option, I kept thinking they were telling me that the only way to stand up for myself was to leave him. That that was the only way I could really be strong, really put my foot down, and show him I meant business.

But I didn't want to do that. I love him. I love being his wife. Hell, that's one of the few pleasures I have left in life. Other than the financial stuff, I think we have a great relationship. I have fun with him. I can open up to him, more than I open up to anyone. We share our emotions, ourselves, we've gone through good times and bad. As I said on the bed at class, crying, being married to him is the only thing in my life that I feel like I've really done right. The thought of not having him, having that, throws me into a deep pit of despair. (Actually, also pathetic, if you think about it.)

They said I was codependent.

That's probably the hardest thing I had to hear. And, the part that made this entry so scary to write. I find myself struggling with that concept, even though I've been reading a bit on it, and I do seem to fit that pattern. Oh, hell, who am I kidding? I do fit that pattern. Others, I think, have told me that in the past, and I don't think I've heard it. Hell, interestingly enough, lunenoire used that exact word in an email to me, before the class, and I literally didn't see it. Not until re-reading it after the fact. I've been hugely in denial about it.

I actually find myself going through the stages of grief about the concept of being codependent. I think I'm currently mostly in the depression stage, but I jump around a lot, which is common. This is SO not the person I want to be. I despise it. I hate myself for it, for being such a wimp, for allowing this to happen to me. Hell, I had this image of myself as strong and competent. Hell, even the things that allowed me to be in such denial about it I considered good qualities. I didn't just look at the surface of things. Sure, if you looked at my relationship with blckwngdorcl from a mere intellectual standpoint, sure it was all fucked up. But I was above all that. I could see the spirituality of it, the great wonder of the lessons the Universe was trying to teach us, to teach me. We didn't have to be bound by the rest of society's rules, we didn't have to make sense to anyone but us.

(Note: This sounds very much like what elorie and fornorald have said in the past. I say this not to point fingers, but because when I (apparently mistakenly) mentioned something to elorie about them being single and not dating, both she and fornorald got pissed off at me, to the point where he called me on the phone, and pointed out that, if someone sees something in someone else's relationship, it's likely a reflection of your own. I told him that, while I believed that, I didn't see a correlation at that time. When lunenoire and I changed the nature of our relationship, I assumed that was the reflection, but it appears that THIS situation was the reflection. Hell, I was even thinking that, even though I didn't SAY it often, I'd felt that way for YEARS about their relationship, and it was only when I got REALLY frustrated about it that I bothered to say something... which, in my mind, sorta negated what he said. But, as I mentioned earlier, it would seem like this post has been years in the making, so... *tips hat to fornorald* ...you were right.)

Anyway, when I came home from class, and, over the course of a couple of days, told blckwngdorcl what was said, and how I felt about it, we had more good talks, which included him saying that he'd let me down in the past, and wouldn't do so again.

Somewhere in there, he was looking for a job at PetSmart, 'cause that's where the general consensus of the atlanta people said to go to learn/have a job in pet grooming. Let me say right now that PetSmart has THE most fucked up hiring process I've ever seen. He and I were both so confident that he was going to get that job, that he didn't look anywhere else, and I didn't care. But, no dice, at least not so far, and it's been too long. So, finally, I asked what he was going to do now. He seemed a little upset, but said he would look elsewhere. And he has. How hard, I'm not sure. Hell, at this point, I no longer trust myself to know, or even judge rightly, how hard or well he's looking for a job.

So, the thing that prompted his post was, after a really good day spent together, we somehow got talking about money. He'd found some money tucked away in his wallet, and was happy to have found it. He ended up spending a great deal of it while we were out, and lamented that, 'cause he so rarely had any money. Somehow this ended up in me getting frustrated, and reminding him that any money he had came from me, so I had every right to have a say in how it was spent. This sorta snowballed into me giving him a reality check on just exactly what had been going on financially in our relationship for the past few years, how he'd not come through, and how he'd done a lot of things he swore he wouldn't do, how he'd become Fig in many ways, after he swore he never would. A lot of things were said. And, somehow, the stars were aligned enough that I think it finally sunk in. At least, his attitude and actions, as well as his post, would seem to indicate that. I can only hope I'm not fooling myself again.

But... let me say this. This isn't an entry to bash blckwngdorcl. That wouldn't be completely fair. Because I have a lot of culpability in this, too. I told him all this, of course, but it bears repeating here.

I wanted him to fix himself. I wanted him to go out and get a job, do all the right things. Not just because it would help us, help me, help him. But because, for him to do so, would allow me to remain in denial, allow me to not grow. If he went out and got a job, and left me with nothing to be codependent about, then I was automatically cured, right? Or so I wanted to believe. If he fixed himself, then I wouldn't have to take a stand about anything. I wouldn't have to be the bad guy. Him being "cured" of his dependency would automatically "cure" me of my codependency, right?

Yeah, even I'm not that stupid, much as I would like to be.

So, I picked something to take a stand on. Valentine's Day. I won't work on the 15th, plus it's a payday. We were gonna do the chocolate thing and IMAX at Fernbank, and a show at Agatha's, along with whatever else struck our fancy. It was going to be a good day, a day of fun, love, and togetherness. Funded entirely by me. I took a stand on that day, because one of the things I resisted about taking a stand was how it would affect *me*. I didn't want to suffer the consequences of cutting him off financially. That would mean that fun days financed by me were right out. And I didn't want that, in a "this hurts me more than it hurts you" sorta way. So, Valentine's Day seemed the perfect foil for that. Or the perfect example of it, as the case may be. It seems like a small stand to take. Now, the only thing we have scheduled on Valentine's Day (or the 15th) is a chiropractor appointment, made and paid for weeks ago. After that... well, my paycheck is going to be short, 'cause of my "broken" ankle and being sick the other day, and I do have one bill to pay. I've thought about taking a day for myself, a day of self-pampering, although I haven't figured out just what yet. I don't want to do any of that out of spite against blckwngdorcl. I want to do it because I want to do something nice for myself, because I deserve it.

Of course, right now, I don't feel like I deserve much of anything. dai_syn and I have a dinner pending, and it always strangely seems to fall around Valentine's Day. We had great fun last year, confusing the poor waiter, who thought we were a couple. I could do that. Hell, it might even be in the budget. Not so sure about that... But that just seems TOO spiteful, under the circumstances. dv8dgrrl, among others, has expressed a desire for coffee and whatnot. I could do all that on that day. Part of me feels like I'll be in mourning, though. And, doing all that precludes massages and pedicures and whatnot... there are only so many hours in the day, after all. And the floatation tank place won't be open yet, or else I'd for sure go there. I might do P&D. Yeah, P&D for sure.

So... I don't know if any of that made a bit of sense, bit if it was confusing, then you probably have an even more accurate idea of where I'm at in my head. I've felt like shit lately, both physically and mentally. I've been dealing with a new and unpleasant view of myself. I've been wondering if I picked up a copy of the DSM-IV, I'd find myself on the pages of the definition of clinical depression. I've even considered pharmacological intervention, and I don't even believe in that. (Well, I compromised on thoughts of homeopathic antidepressants.) I've wished I didn't owe my therapist so much money, and felt comfortable asking for a session or two, even though I can't pay for it. She'd probably let me, too. But I don't feel like I deserve it. Pretty much, I'm having a hard time feeling like I deserve much of anything right now. Which, y'know, is a bad place to be when you're trying to stand up for yourself, and say that you DO deserve the good stuff, and that, dammit, you're willing to do the hard stuff to get it. (Not the working till I'm sick part... the standing up for myself part.)

Anyway, I'm posting this now, before I lose my nerve.

Comments

[missakins.livejournal.com]

Unless he quit in a bad fashion at FedEx, he'd likely be able to be rehired.
He can call recruitment (404-728-5200) and see about it.

He's playing you like a fine fiddle.

[(Anonymous)]

He's not going to call FedEx. He's not going to work. Everything that he could go for is going to be shady or wrong or something that makes every bit of sense to feel he's above it.

Meanwhile, you are literaly killing yourself taking care of him. You are not his wife. You are his mother. You are not his love. That would be Lunenoire. You are his mealticket.

He's holding on because he's living a dream life. He takes care of no one. Everyonetakes care of him.

Does he love you? Find out. Tell him to move out until he can pay his share. If you aren't financing him, do you really think he's going to stay around you or find another place to land his lazy ass.

Even his post is FILLED with I and me. Count them. AND he disabled comments. He knows damn well what people will say. It's very obvious. They will tell the truth. And he doesn't want the truth to be told. Not because he is scared of it. He knows it. He's scared you realize. Then what will he do.

You need to love you. You need to fill yourself with love until you don't need someone dependent on you. You posted once about that being something you do. The reason why is because you think unless you are paying someone they won't stick around. This guy is so good he's got you all in angst over his unwillingness to help. Somehow you think it's your fault.

You are so wrong. You are so lovely and loving and loveable. You have the heart of 10 giants. As painful as it would be to adjust to life without him, you are not going to get any better until you take care of yourself. You are the only one who can do it.

But, nver forget you are very much loved.

Take all the time you need to work on self love and self care.

[isarma.livejournal.com]

I don't know who anonymous is, but they made some fine points. I don't think he schemes to get you to do this. I don't think he's being evil. I think it's fucked up and I don't know him nearly well enough to know why. And honey, even in this post, lotsa BS. Love you, but BS. I've been there to hear your sudden bursts of late night honesty for years and this started *way* before Fedex. In fact, Fedex was a job for what, 11 hours a week?! The norm for most of your relationship is him being slack and lazy and only getting jobs briefly to appease you. I don't know much of his work history before you, but I've heard you both mention the debts he owed, not just to companies, but the his fellow roommates. Times he got kicked out for months of nonpayment. If he worked and supported himself, how did this happen?

You know my view. You love Glenn, He loves you. I get it. But this is not just about money. This is a pervasive thing in other areas of the relationship. It's not because you won't call him on it...you keep the peace. And, for your part, how much of you has engineered this, I don't know, but I think you like that he has no world outside of you. Did you help create his dependancy on your or do you just seek out those who will hyperfocus on you, I don't know.

I think you should set and stick to a firm date. Have a job and paycheck by this date or move. Seriously. I'd be halftempted to kick him out immediately. If you don't do it, that's your choice, but hear this part: anything less is BS. If you try to tell yourself that he's doing better and give it a shot, you'll just let him surf for another 6 months. He needs to get over his sense of entitlement that he deserves a job he loves and settle for one he can cope with that pays the bills and *then* look for the one he loves...like the rest of the adults in the world have had to do at one point or another.

My thoughts on the househusband bit...the Fedex job was not lucrative because the hours were so little. I think you created the househusband concept in order to keep him. I think you talked yourself into it to avoid having to put your foot down, to no avail, again and then wonder what to do. I've done it before with other things.

Anyway, I'm sure I could go on. This is my honest response. I love you and I like Glenn (don't feel he's ever let me see him enough to say more than that), but seriously, about damn time. And good for them. I'm glad someone finally got through. I'm sorry you both feel you've got no life outside eachother, but you created that. You've smothered off everything that doesn't compliment the codependant cycle...this coming from a once close friend who talks to you maybe 3 times a year. And no, I'm not mad, I'm just saying, there's no room for anyone else in that.

[simplysakka.livejournal.com]

I can see this, all of it, and for the record, I'm thinking that anonymous is being too harsh. You're right, you created this reality *together* - both of you, and for the most part, we've just sat on the sidelines watching it turn into what it has turned into.

I think everyone else has that thread covered; what I really want to focus on is your reluctance to admit this, or really, anything. Hon, we all have weaknesses. We all are human in one way or another, sometimes many ways. Some of us are stronger in some areas than in others. To admit one's shortcomings, well... There are many that balk at this, but I encourage you, particularly since you have been doing the Core Energetics for so long, face them. Face your fears, face your weaknesses, face your shortcomings. It's a lot easier to deal with them once you have them out in the open. Keeping them hidden, keeping them clandestine, it's like twice the struggle. You're spending all this time and energy trying to hide and not face the things about yourself you know need to be worked on, and honestly, it's much more liberating if you simply say, "Okay, so...I'm co-dependent." It isn't the end of the world. So you are, and then you go to work and you begin healing.

Good luck (even though I don't really believe in luck), and remember there are a lot of folks out here who care and are pulling for you.

[fey-touched.livejournal.com]

Uh, though I was (and am) concerned, I hope you didn't post this before you were actually ready to post it.

Wow, that was quite an unloading. Though I know it is painful as hell right now, I hope and pray that this is an opening for you to really examine these cycles, the energy put into them, and how to heal from them. It sounds like your Core group might provide you the safe space to do this.

It does not sound healthy. It does not sound like a good relationship. It is not the relationship between equals or partners.

I think the BOTH of you need to do some serious reflection and practical action. Practical action on your part may mean setting firm deadlines with Glenn about getting a job - not the perfect job as Sarah says, but one that pays the bills until he can look for a better one. Practical action on his part is seriously looking for said job and taking steps to show how much he appreciates you.

Both of you should reflect on what you want out of a relationship (not YOUR relationship but out of A relationship; less room for "oh, it's not that bad..."). Then talk about what those things *mean* to one another. One person's definition of "partnership" might be different from the other person's. This is you setting the parameters for what you *need* and *deserve* here.

Do not settle for less. I promise you, you deserve a lot.

[setinstones.livejournal.com]

Im gonna take some wild stabs here. I dont know either of you well enough to get to the gooey innards of the situation, but*cracks knuckles* lets see what I can come up with.

I think everyone above has some really good points and has provided alot of food for thought. Ive gotta say from just reading this post the "do whats right for great justice" side of me was nodding vigorously at the first comment. Maybe its just the texan in me but the words "behind" and "woodshed" came to mind alot. I dont think he is by any means a bad person, but this aversion to doing what needs to be done needs to be remedied and quick. For your sake as well as his.

Having said all that Im going to take a diffrent tack now.
I'm thinking one of the main reasons you have put up with being the sole provider for so long is, well, your a care taker. You like the feeling you get when someone's comfort is provided for by you, and the appreciation you get or should be getting in return. Mandy is the same way, for her and maybe you I think its a latent motherly instict that needs to be fullfilled and since she does not ever want to be a mother I'm the one thats on the recieving end.

Now when the appreciation that was expected was coming home to a clean house everything was dandy. However your expectation changed and you comunicated that to him, he agreed to change something so you continued to be happy being a care taker. When it became clear that he would not meet the new expectation the problems started to kick in. The problem would be bandaged over with half hearted attempts on his part along with reasurances that things would be all better. You becuase you wanted things to be better accepted said bandages.

Of course bandages heal nothing, they only allow the underlying wound to heal without outside influences making it worse while keeping anything that festers from of the wound from getting out.

The wound was never treated and now needs an immidiate remedy least the body die. Amputation is an option. Cut it off and cast it away. Otherwise he needs to seak imdiate treatment and make a change in his actions today. And I mean today.

The bad part even him getting work wont fix the problems you have now. It will help make some of the other problems manageable but you two have a long painful road ahead if the marriage is going to work.

Obviously not everything is his or your fault and im not trying to lay blame for the entirity of your issues on him. But this one thing, the work thing, I feel comfortable saying is all him. It shows a lack of care for you.

If I were in your shoes, and granted Im not as nice of person as you are, I would find a number for a day labor place, find a way to get him there, and tell him "there, there is work" He could two things at that point, turn it down, thereby proving he wont change ro agree showing a great ammount of care for you.

I gaurantee you he would have a stable job shortly there after. Digging ditches tends to do that.

Granted that was written with the notion that other than cleaning he is not doing anything to better his or your place in the world. If thats not the case then I take some of the harshness out my comment.

Next step cut off funds. Obviously dont starve him, but part of being a care taker is being a discplinarian. If your paying for the games, the internet or what have you. Off they go. And ask others not to circumvent you on that. If they care about him then they will want to see him better himself and will agree.

If those dont work leave. Maybe not permanently. Go stay with a freind or relative for a few weeks or months without sending back any finacial help. the intervening time would be very telling.

Im glad you are able to let all this out.

Like I said I like everyone in your house but we all have things we need to change about ourselves

[(Anonymous)]

I believe setinstones hit it on the head about the care giver part. I think that is a huge part of your attraction to people who need/want it. But it can and will suck the life out of you if you only give and never take or are given.

[(Anonymous)]

I agree. I don't think he schemes to get you to do this at all. He's not a bastard. He's fighting his own demons and fears (a statement which, I am quite sure made you want to scoop him up and take care of him. :))

It 'feels' more like a case of two really nice people who hooked up but feed into each others weaknesses rather than strengths. As a result, he doesn't have to work on his problems or pull his own weight. You will kill yourself trying to do it for him.

The sad thing is that he is the only one who can do it. And you have given him permission not to.

I read all of these and think of how much it must hurt you to read it. I am sorry for any pain. I knew my remarks were harsh but I am worried about you. I think to smile and soothe and say, don't worry would be a great disservice to you. I don't want you to hurt anymore.

Are we right or wrong? I don't know. I don't even know you. But I do know how wonderful you are. And whether he gets a job or you die trying to support him, you should know you are fantastic and people care.

TAKE CARE OF YOU! PLEASE. You are doing no one a favor by killing yourself. And, while all solutions probably seem overwhelming, you will have to chose one at some point and proceed. When you do, best of luck and all of my prayers will be with you.

Hugs

[(Anonymous)]

I reread this and I hope I didn't hurt your feelings but I'm sure I did.

I am so sorry. My intention was to give you things to think about. I feel like I know what you are going through because it's the story of my life. I see myself in you.

Bottom line: I wish you all happiness. NO ONE deserves it more than you.

The nitpicking bastard asks a question, for his benefit...

[lunenoire.livejournal.com]

...when you posted this, were you looking for comments of the type preceding this one?

The post was intended to share the beginning actualization of a life change. The comments you received were offering support, advice on how to handle the situation, insights as to the foundation of events and decisions leading up to the threshold, etc., but re-reading your post, I don't recall you asking for any of that, really, so most of these answers are, regardless of their quality and level of support, unsolicited.

Some more experienced than I in livejournal etiquette might say that leaving a post set it a public livejournal open for comments is an invitation to receive unfiltered communications from anyone. To be fair, I've never heard you say, "I wasn't ready to hear that" *after* the fact. It definitely leaves it more organic; I'm so controlling about what I "say" (posts) and what I "hear" (comments) that I'm sure that others reading it feel that my livejournal is works against the very purpose of the openness in using livejournal.

To be frank, every comment posted here so far has had some valid point or observation to make, but they aren't things you haven't heard or observed before. Your supporters are grabbing the opportunity to sway you toward a healthier state of being, and I don't blame them, because of the filters you've put up in the past against anyone who didn't agree with your viewpoint at the time. Those are some pretty formidable barriers. But in the end, it does come to down to what you're willing to act on, and I'm just wondering if they are as a whole remaining conscious of that fact, not to mention that your post is about you, and not about blckwngdorcl.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not asking them to quietly ignore the presence of your husband. The authors are all expressing their support and love for you and their desire for your health, which is a good thing...but, as someone pointed out to me earlier today, this trend of posts could be interpreted as placing your relationship with blckwngdorcl on trial, and that is somewhat counterproductive.

I don't feel by posting your feelings you were asking others to help slam blckwngdorcl for his culpability in the dynamic you both created and now are trying to change. To explain that, I venture that in some cases your friends and readers have gotten so frustrated with seeing you in misery (not to mention all the times they advised you before) that they're skirting the act demonizing blckwngdorcl, and they're doing it in your journal because a) they have the opportunity, b) they have the stronger connection to you, and, in a couple of cases, c) because he wouldn't let them direct their comments to him in his own livejournal account.

Also, it's possible that your "fans" think that since your seemingly infinite (and co-dependent) patience with blckwngdorcl's responsibility issues didn't work, the reverse of that--vilifying him where he can read it also--will succeed in "turning him around." The logic doesn't hold up under scrutiny, and it shows an appalling lack of sensitivity in placing you both in a position as individuals and as a married couple to defend your ability to succeed in your relationship while you guys are working this out.

Whatever the reasons for the trend of comments, I want to know your motivation, and, if anything, what you want from "us" so that I can, if inclined, speak to it with the appropriate focus in the future. I'll use my own judgment whether what you're asking for would be a healthy support, or an enabling dynamic.

An addendum

[lunenoire.livejournal.com]

I was writing this so long over the course of the day that I didn't refresh before I posted...I'm glad to see that whomever Anonymous is, they re-thought their initial delivery, and apologized.

In light of that, I was tempted to delete the post I made, because I thought I might have commented responding primarily to Anonymous' tone...but I decided that my question and concerns were still valid, and that it might be good for future posters to take it into consideration once they read your post.

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie. Actually, we had ruled FedEx out. Not because he left on bad terms, but because, financially, it just wasn't worth working there. The pay was good, but the hours sucked (as in, not enough of them), so we just decided to pass them over.

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Thanks, sweetie. I'm not willing to kick him out. I'm just not. Call that what you like, but that's not a step I'm willing to take. Cut him off financially, except for the rent/utilities thing, yeah. But to kick him out altogether. I'm just not there, and not sure I will be, or even want to be.

For the most part, I agree with everything you've said. Oh, with the exception of him getting kicked out of somewhere due to non-payment. That never happened, although it may have gone through the grapevine to become that. But yeah... the doing whatever I felt I had to do to keep him, isolating myself, and him, really, so that we only had each other to turn to. Yeah... I had only scratched the surface of that dynamic in my head, but it's pretty fucked up. I mean, that's a clear earmark of an abusive, not just a dysfunctional, relationship. I don't like to think of myself as an abuser. Hell, I'm still trying to wrap my head around codependent. I could justify part of the isolation by saying that, when I worked a lot, I had so little time to myself, and for my relationship, that I wanted to spend what little free time I had with my husband. Which is most certainly true, but wouldn't account for the time since September, when my hours went down. So, yeah, definitely perpetuating that.

*sigh* So much to think about...

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Part of me is upset... you've said before that there were things about my marriage that you thought were fucked up (my paraphrasing, of course), but you weren't going to tell me what they were, 'cause you weren't like that (in contrast to me). So, I'm wondering, is this what you saw? Part of me wishes you'd said something earlier. But, I know I wouldn't have listened. Not then. I would have come up with the same rationalizations I cited in my post, and gone on my (not so) merry way. But I would have remembered, later, when I figured out you were right. And I would have reluctantly admitted it. But, be that as it may, that's water under the bridge right now, and, to be honest, lest you think otherwise, I'm not that upset by it. More like hurt. But I've been (and continue to be, in some cases) not completely forthcoming on my viewpoints regarding you, either.

And you'd think I'd be thrilled to have a label to what I am. Y'know, there are all sorts of books and therapies out there for codependents. Now I have something to work towards, and even a clear path how to do so. But, I don't see it that way. It's like I've fallen off my own pedestal. I smile ruefully at the irony of it, because I've always thought one of your problems was that you believed your own hype, when it turns out I was just as guilty of doing so. I wanted so much to believe that I was stronger, wiser, better than being in the type of relationship, the type of life I (co-)created, that I blinded myself to the possibility of being THIS fucked up. Mirror mirror.

*sigh* I'm very sorry. And thank you for your insights. You make a lot of good and valid points.

[isarma.livejournal.com]

Two things:

I know you don't want to kick him out, I mean, who wants that? The thing is, if the relationship is to flourish, it has to be BOTH of you and not just you. He could have any number of jobs accompanied by a paycheck in less than a month. Easily. If he's not willing to do that and at least start there, then how serious is he about the relationship or his self-improvement?

Perhaps I mistated about the kicking out. I was told that he owed the Harmony House folks a huge debt when you guys moved in, based on living with them before and running up a *tab* by not paying his full bills and such.
I remember similar things being said about his time with the Braggs, I believe by him, that he hadn't been paying bills on time. I think he kept jobs *before you* so he could, you know, eat and not be homeless, but has he ever done much more than the minumum folks expected? I don't think any of you have or are helping him.

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I posted it, so I must have been ready. Anything else would have been avoidance, and, in fact, I was already being avoidant, and I didn't want to do that anymore.

And yeah. I'm hoping/praying for this whole experience to be a huge fucking learning experience. I'm sure I'll look back at this as one of the major turning points of my life, and of my relationship with my husband. Right now... it's just hard.

We're already working on the things you've suggested, except for the sitting down and mapping out a relationship. A very good idea. Might be a great thing for Wednesday.

Thank you.

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

I don't have much of a response to what you said, really. You pretty much hit the nail on the head with just about all of it. And we're doing a great deal of what you mentioned (although not all). Thanks for sharing all that.

Re: The nitpicking bastard asks a question, for his benefit...

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Well... I hadn't really thought of what I wanted from comments. I mean, I figured there would be some, and I hoped that they wouldn't be of the scathing (to me) variety, although that's what I felt I deserved. There were some weak parts of me that were hoping for soothing "there there dear" responses, although I wouldn't really have believed or respected anyone that responded in that way. It would have been a hollow comfort at best. I was certainly interested (as I always am) in comments that explored the dynamic itself, and maybe offered some insights on the issues that I hadn't seen yet. Whether or not I could have responded in a healthy manner to such comments (or whether I have with the ones already written), I don't know. I'd like to think so, but I just don't know. I guess, overall, I just wanted honesty. Compassionate honesty, to be sure, but honesty, nonetheless. It's hard for me to take in the comments which include people loving me - I feel like my self-imposed isolation has earned me a forfeit for that type of feelings from friends whom I really haven't kept in contact with. Which, y'know, is pretty much everyone. *sigh* So, yeah, I'm feeling martyrish on that one.

What I did NOT want was blckwngdorcl's villification. However, I'm not sure I can be an objective judge of what is villification, and what is honest/compassionate/constructive criticism. Kinda like the big brother that beats up on his little sister on a regular basis... but let someone else try to do it...... I can certainly understand, though, as you said, about the frustration of those close to me, and the desire to demonize him.

*shrug* I hope that answers your question.

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Ah... he did owe money to the Braggs when he moved out, but that wasn't the reason they asked him to leave. And (unbeknownst to me at the time) he didn't really owe the Whisnants money when he moved out, either, although that was the premise upon which we all moved in together. It wasn't until AFTER the fact, comparing notes, that we discovered the premise was false. And, by then, we DID owe them money, and much moreso after the landlord fiasco. At any rate, lack of payment wasn't why he stopped living with them, either. I can see where the misconception started now, though. Hope that clears it up.

And yeah. I'm totally not helping him. Even when I think I'm being helpful, I'm really just fortifying his role of dependent, of victim. I don't think he has ever done more than the bare minimum to get by, with or without me. As far as how willing he is to change it... Well, history shows not much. Do I think that can change? Yes. Is that realistic? I don't know. I feel like just waiting and seeing is too passive, too complacent. If I help him too much on the job thing, in order for him to get one quicker... well, it's not him doing the work, it's me... plus it continues the cycle of making him weak and dependent on me. Which is a cycle I'm trying to stop. And, a cycle that he's said he wants to stop - and his energy rings true with that. His energy has rung true with a lot of things lately, things for which that wasn't true before. Will it be enough to undo years of this dynamic? I don't know. I'm hoping real hard though. And trying to figure out the best ways to act on that hope, and trying to have the courage to follow through.

*hugs* Thanks, hon.

Re: He's playing you like a fine fiddle. (1 of 2)

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Your comments were the hardest to respond to. Partially, 'cause I don't know who you are. I'd like to know, certainly. Everyone at the house has theories... notsomuch of who you are specifically, but things that would narrow it down to who you aren't. Although you totally threw me with your statement of not even knowing me. Clearly, you've read my LJ for a long time, so you must know me in that sense. I had the impression you knew me in person, though. You make a lot of comments on my character, so you must know me somehow. *shrug* I can't force you to reveal your identity, either here, or in an email to me (bookofmirrors[at]livejournal[dot]com), but I'd really be interested in knowing.

That being said, it's hard for me to respond to what seems like a pure villification of blckwngdorcl. Does he deserve it? I don't think to the extent that you've done it, but certainly to more of an extent than I've done it. Anger has always been hard for me, and I'd have to get pretty angry to have those opinions of him - I'm just not there yet. It would probably be very healthy for me to be in that place, but I'm just not right now. Perhaps you feel the need to be angry on my behalf, since I'm not doing a very good job at it. I don't begrudge you that - you're not the first, and it's nice to know that someone is outraged, even if it's not me, yet.

Your subsequent comments lack the vitriol of this comment, for which I'm grateful. Partially because it makes them easier to deal with because the harshness isn't there. Partially because, as much as I resisted it initially, it forced me to not lump you into a category that would have just made you some freak on a rant. It proved you had something else to say, and that you weren't just spewing anger.

Anyway, hard to take or not, you have some good points, and some points that are clearly just a function of not knowing blckwngdorcl personally. I think even lunenoire would call bullshit at him, not me, being blckwngdorcl's "love". Which isn't to say he doesn't love him, of course... just that it's different.

Re: He's playing you like a fine fiddle. (2 of 2)

[bookofmirrors.livejournal.com]

Is he playing me like a fiddle? I don't think I'm in any position to answer that, honestly. Of course, I want to believe that he's not - that he's just wounded and misguided like the rest of us, and this is the way it manifests for him, along with some help from me. But is that true? *shrug* I can't tell. I don't think so, but I'm heavily biased, and still wanting to see our relationship with rose-colored glasses (that I'm trying simultaneously to rip off my face).

Sure, I've asked him. And he'd pondered it himself, before I asked. He says he's not. His energy rings true when he says it. Do I trust that? Not completely. If he's fooling himself well, his energy will still ring true. I trust him to be honest with me, but one can only be as honest with another as one is with one's self. Plus, he's not completely unbiased, either. Far from it.

At this point, all I have is trust. Trust that we can, and will, get through this, and emerge victorious (and financially sound) on the other side.

Re: He's playing you like a fine fiddle. (2 of 2)

[(Anonymous)]

I must apologize for coming down so hard on him although I stand by my statements. But you said, "Of course, I want to believe that he's not - that he's just wounded and misguided like the rest of us." I believe that with all my heart.

I guess my heart is with you because I've been in a similar situation. I am much like you. Projecting, perhaps.

I was hoping to convey what was happening not what he is feeling or why he is doing it. Even if he is the world's greatest asshole, that's just a wounded spirit.

I admire that you want to stay with him. I don't have confidence that he will step up and give you what you need. He's scared.

No, I don't know you. All I know is what I've read in your journal. That isn't enough to make judgements and I should have kept them to myself. I've just "seen" you go through so much and I just want to hold you or shake you and make you feel the self love you deserve.

You are a professional. I can't know what the heck is going on from a journal. I feel a kinship because I have been there. And it's scary because I don't feel that you will break free.

Remember, breaking free isn't necessarily leaving him. It can also be the two of you working it out in a healthy way.

I don't want to hurt him. I want you to quit hurting.

I started reading shortly before you became a triad and I was interested to see if you could make it work and how it worked.

You are brave and strong. You post your deepest disappointments for all the world to see when people who want to hurt you will use your posts against you. But you stand honestly with what you are. I admire that so much.

I've emailed you before. I will again. I think it would be chickenshit to drop this on you anonymously and not give you the option of ranting and raving back. Because, I think one thing you need to do is rant and rave. And if it is to assholes on the internet that would pop in and make judgements, then it's safe for you.

You are so wonderful. Never forget that.

[setinstones.livejournal.com]

I have so many opinions, one was bound to be close eventually ;)

And I didnt mention it above , it was an oversite, there is nothing wrong with being a care taker.

[(Anonymous)]

It's ironic that your name is bookofmirrors. At one point in my life, when I was more like Glenn than you, a friend would "hold up a mirror" which was basically telling me like it is, like your friends and I are doing now. It was infuriating. He sure didn't have all the answers. He was very much like Glenn.

But for some reason, I resisted the urge to shove it back in his face and thought it out and realized it was true. It took me literally years to work it out and I'm still working on it.

Nothing you do will be easy. Counseling would help but I'm usre that's not within your means.

But you are incredibly insightful. Have you considered a 40 day meditation ritual for it? Adjust your schedule to work on it daily? Give yourself time. But don't let you give yourslef excuses. That will kill the efforts.

I'm sorry I am so hard. But i truly believe your health is at stake. Ive been there and I paid for it with my health. You might not live to be an old woman. If you continue on this path, you WON'T live to be an old woman.

Take all the statements. Take the ones that are harsh or wrong out. Deal with what's left. when you've made peace with them, maybe approach the harsher ones and decide if they are real or not. We have advice. You are the only one with the answers.

And you know what?

You know the answer. You are very intuitive. You know exactly what you "should" do. I believe what you should do is not what you want to do. That means the issue is turning what you want to do into what y ou should do.

His support of you in that will tell you a great deal.

Re: The nitpicking bastard asks a question, for his benefit...

[(Anonymous)]

My impression was that you didn't know what you wanted from the post. That fit with your subsequent post about not feeling the cartharsis. By people throwing out so many issues/considerations, you can pick and choose what is meaningful and true to you--whether you are right or wrong.

I don't think anyone wanted to villify him. They wanted to help you. And, to be honest, I was pleasantly surprised to see your non-anonymous friends speak with honesty.

Because it's what you need.

Glenn is not a bad man. he's hurting as much as you are. He doesn't want to be hurting you. It's as difficult for him as it is for you. He wants it fixed. The question is, do both of you want it bad enough to do what it takes which will *not* be easy.

I do worry about lunenoire. I believe he has glenn's best interest at heart. I'm not so sure he has yours.

Some of the posts were harsh. desperate times call for desperate measures.

Listen to your body. Can you heal without dealing with this and making it happen? Do you really expect it to go away or be fixed unless you answer some very difficult questions--not answering us. It's none of our damn business. Answering yours.

Sweetie, you KNOW the answer. You just hate it. I understand that and my heart breaks for you.

I will quit following this as I seem to be making things worse. Know I only wanted to help. I helped from your point of view. I could do the same for him but he doesn't invite it. He actually stopped it. When he is ready to do it, he will listen. And, hey, he may be reading these posts and listening in his way and in his time. It's not easy for either of you. But those kinds of truths won't make you fix it. It will give you even more excuses to prolong it.

Harsh reality is what will help you make the first step.

I think a written out plan is a great idea. Setting goals and dates and outcomes will give you something to measure success. Success will be in baby steps. Just remember in your plan to put lots of things to help you heal, not just him.