Boundaries, Et Cetera

[bookofmirrors]

Well, we finally all sat down and talked stuff out. blckwngdorcl took the plunge of knocking on the door and presumably waking simplysakka and wyzard_vyrnahnn. Luckily for all of us, liljuice was already awake, since he's damn near impossible to wake up.

It was, overall, a good talk. Not everything got resolved, but it was good to talk face-to-face. Given all the stuff that's been happening on here, I think I had been dreading it, expecting the worst. Neither the worst nor the best happened, I don't think, but I still feel that progress was made. Not so much in what was done or said, per se, but just that, for my part, my own energy seems to be flowing a little better. A lot of what feels better for me, I think, actually came out of a talk that blckwngdorcl and I had afterwards, but I'll refer to that as it comes up.

As of now, the post still stands. I understand simplysakka and wyzard_vyrnahnn are hurt by that. What I did agree to do, and this post is a part of that, was to try to wrap my mind around their viewpoint. Right now, I'm having difficulty doing that. Both simplysakka and elorie have made comments to the effect of making a post in their LJs similar to what I did; in effect, putting the shoe on the other foot, so I could see what it felt like. I understand this motivation, although I'm not sure it would have the desired effect. No one likes to feel attacked. I get that. I'm sure if such posts were made, I would likely feel attacked, especially if the issues brought up were ones that I wasn't previously aware of. But, the point is, I would SUPPORT their right to do so. I support anyone's right to do so. If having my private life aired over someone else's LJ, or any other public or semi-public forum made me angry, made me uncomfortable... well, that says something, doesn't it? I'd be more interested in evaluating why it evoked that reaction in me, and how I could work with that. If it evoked a strong reaction within myself, then that would say, to me, that I need to look at those things more closely.

I realized, in the middle of writing that, that it could come across as a veiled hint, or a holier-than-thou message to those offended by the posts in question. They were not intended that way. I was merely trying to state that my mind works differently - which isn't meant to imply better or worse than anyone else's.

The point being, in relation to the post, I'm going to try to step out of my own worldview and experience another, and see where I want to go from there. And there's no telling where that will be. I make no promises, other than to be true to myself. But I acknowledge the fact that I can't necessarily be true to myself if I don't explore all the motivations and whatnot, how they affect others, and how much I choose to react to it.

simplysakka said, during our discussion, that my perspective of doing what I felt was best for me, regardless of others' feelings on the issue, was selfish. (I'm somewhat misquoting here - it was not said as harshly as this implies, and it was surrounded by other words I've forgotten precisely, but none of that really affects what I'm about to say - just wanted to make it clear.)

It *IS* a selfish viewpoint. I don't apologize for that. In fact, I've worked very hard to have any selfish viewpoints at all. In that past, I would have backed down. Hell, I've done it in the recent past, backing down when I knew I shouldn't have. It's still hard for me to tell someone to go fuck themselves, even when that's what I feel like doing. And always, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I feel like I've lied, chosen the more convenient and non-adversarial truths over what I really felt. It's a sad thing, really, and something that it's really hard for me not to do. It's a courage I'm hoping to find. (Which may end up as more controversial posts, but they'd be more related to my own feelings rather than spouting off my opinions.) Is it unfortunate I have chosen this particular issue over which to make a stand? Perhaps. And I need to find out what it is, exactly, that I'm standing for. Because it's never really about the symptom, is it?

Which leads me to the subject line of this post. Boundaries. This issue comes up again and again in my life. I would be an absolute idiot not to see this. Obviously, there's some lesson to be learned here. If there weren't, the issue wouldn't keep coming up. Duh.

gaeasson once said, and blckwngdorcl quoted tonight, that "Your rights end where my nose begins". I don't really believe this, and said so at the original tc_borderpagans discussion where it came up. (There may be a post about that in the future.) I have a very Satanic view of diety. I'm God. My rights end where I say they end, and nowhere else. Of course, this applies to everyone else, too. It leaves not only myself free to do whatthefuckever, but it leaves everyone free to do the same. I support this.

This is, however, as walkingbear pointed out, a more philosophical and esoteric view of the concept. I said to gaeasson later that, while I believed that I had the right to do whatever I wanted, I chose to MANIFEST that right within the boundaries he stated.

Which isn't what I did with that post.

So, I'm left to wonder if I was lying to myself when I said I chose to live by that statement, or if I really do believe that, and fucked up with the post.

But I think I'm digressing. Not sure. But...

Boundaries. I have very few. Some might say that my boundaries are nonexistent, and I'm not sure I could argue with them. elorie has had the most success in her explanations of boundaries to me, in terms that I can grasp. Unfortunately, it would seem that, even though I get what she's saying at the time, the information doesn't stick. Most likely, I think, because I don't have the framework in place to really assimilate and grok the idea. I get it at the time, but, left to my own devices and schemas, the concept becomes muddled and confusing later. I get caught up in mental loops of trying to fit what she's said into my schemas, and it just doesn't FIT. I run my thought processes ragged with "But what about......?" scenarios that are so elusive and semi-conscious as to make the whole thing overwhelming, so I end up just shutting the whole thing down and working with my original ideas.

In fact, just writing about it now is kinda making my head spin. Which says a lot in and of itself.

Argh. I feel like there's more to say, but my brain just went away. I think I'll step away for a while. With luck, I'll get back to it tonight. My work schedule is very different that usual this week, so my time to get shit done has been limited, although, as far as I can tell, I'm actually going to be free this weekend, so maybe then.

*sigh*

Comments

[elorie.livejournal.com]

If having my private life aired over someone else's LJ, or any other public or semi-public forum made me angry, made me uncomfortable... well, that says something, doesn't it?

Yeah. It says you'd be right.

Anger is not a problem. It's not wrong. It's not something you have to get rid of. Sometimes, yes, when you are reacting to internal triggers that have nothing to do with the situation at hand...but that does NOT mean that every reaction of anger means that there's some murky psychological motive within yourself that needs to be sanitized away. The proper place of anger is to tell you when your boundaries have been crossed. Anger is healthy, anger is real, anger protects your life force.

I think the issue you have with anger and the issue you have with boundaries are the same thing. You want to make both of them disappear, and I think that's not healthy. Hell, you think that's not healthy, when it's framed that way. My opinion is that the desire to erase your own anger (and, by implication, other people's) is rooted in self-loathing.

You've crossed other people's boundaries, and they are reacting with anger. That's not an unhealthy reaction on their part; it's a very reasonable one. If they'd gotten angry that you'd said those things at all, that WOULD be unreasonable. But that's not what they're objecting to. For you to insist on continuing to cross reasonable boundaries even after they've stated them is coercive.

I said I probably wouldn't make a post critiquing your life even if you said it was ok, because I don't intentionally cross people's boundaries, out of a sense of my own integrity. Even people who think they don't have any. Sometimes it's useful to do such a thing when the person in question gives permission and understands the implications, but I'm not sure that you do.

Try this: Look at the energy flow of the situation. Where is it being generated? Where is it leaking? Who's holding on to power, and who's trying to diffuse it? I see you insisting on keeping that post public on your journal as a form of holding power-over other people in the name of truth and freedom, to put it most harshly. You're balking because of your principles, but since when do your principles involve hurting people? Separate the issue of speaking your truth from speaking it publicly, because they are indeed separate.